| Author |
Thread |
|
Cyrax
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
623 posts
Joined: May, 2012
|
 Posted - 2014/02/10 : 21:45:14
and err enjoy your night shift, i'm going to bed in a bit
Alert moderator 
|
Ionosphere
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,750 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
|
Posted - 2014/02/10 : 22:47:09
Yet again, everything that Olly said plus;
get too 'creative' with Hardcore and most people don't like it. Looked at impartially, they only really like what they know.... :-/
I could be wrong.
__________________________________
This- http://www.discogs.com/artist/Ionosphere
THIS - http://soundcloud.com/ionosphere
VIDEO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYWkHCkaho
Alert moderator
|
Elliott
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,147 posts
Joined: May, 2012
|
Posted - 2014/02/11 : 02:22:14
With respect to hardcore vs drum & bass, I agree that there's more freedom for producers in D&B but not to the same extent as Elipton.
I think tempo is a bit of a moot point. The generally accepted range of tempos for hardcore and D&B are really very similar (~170-180). I don't think of tempo as a limiting factor per se though. I mean, of course it is but working to 170 doesn't really feel restrictive to me personally.
Stylistically (and, admittedly, very crudely), jump up (and perhaps neurofunk) is your D&B equivalent of dubcore/electrocore, "upfront" liquid is your big supersaw anthems and then you've got a bunch of niches in both genres that have no direct mapping onto the other. I do agree that there are more style options in D&B but, factoring out the breakbeats, I'm not convinced it's a massive difference. For example, you could even say, to some extent, that powerstomp has the same simplistic focus on the drums and bassline and their interaction as a lot of minimal D&B (though with very different results).
Anyway, the real difference is drum programming. D&B isn't stuck to a 4-to-the-floor rhythm. It has a whole extra dimension to use to create variation. You can remove all but 4 drum beats every 2 bars and still have a cohesive rhythm if you want to go completely minimal. Hardcore, on the other hand, has a kick on every step as a gospel tenet. Very little room for manoeuvre there, certainly not any substantial manoeuvre. There's just so much you can do with a tune in that respect while still staying within the genre's confines.
Otherwise, I also agree about structure. It's very interesting to me that D&B has evolved such that rhythmic introductions aren't often used. We went down the same route as other mainstream dance genres (trance, house, electro etc.) of starting with a straight 4/4 kick and building up the percussion from there and D&B just didn't. Full length D&B tracks often start with pads or basically any section of build-up but the kicks are frequently absent. Same goes for the outros. Just do whatever the fuck you want, more or less. When I first started mixing D&B, it felt like I was mixing radio edits of hardcore tracks but I really enjoy it now because it's more interesting/challenging. :D
Anyway, in typical style, I've basically taken a small point and gone off at a tangent for far too long. Sorry about that!
__________________________________
old soundcloud
i gave up producing
Alert moderator
Edited by - Elliott on 2014/02/11 02:27:01 |
versia
Average Member
Australia
180 posts
Joined: Oct, 2013
|
Posted - 2014/02/11 : 03:32:51
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
Even down to the most obvious point, D&B dupes Hardcore on the creative front. D&B can work with a whole plethora of various drum patterns and sounds, Hardcore is strictly required to have a 4x4 kick. If Hardcore had anything else, the vast majority of people would dismiss it as the same genre. I think Hardcore can expand and I've been pushing my own boundaries for a while, but the short story is that D&B is a haven for creativity. It's why so many former Dubstep producers have also sought shelter under D&B's vast roof.
Sorry Elipton, but I respectfully disagree with yourself on the subject of Hardcore's boundaries of creativity, which is a shame, because I normally agree with your opinions on hardcore culture and such.
D&B has nothing on Hardcore, I honestly believe that. If we look stylistically and structurally at what Hardcore and D&B could achieve, there is a huge difference. Think about it logically for a second -
A UK Hardcore producer decides to put a Drum and Bass pattern into their track's break, many tracks do this with success. Now attempt the reverse, a Drum and Bass producer attempts to place a UK Hardcore pattern into their track's break. The result? Something rather unorthodox indeed.
I think the problem lies in the fact that most Hardcore producers have not realized the potential of the genre thus far. Being one of the fastest 4/4 genres around, Hardcore producers can take liberties and influences from anywhere, I mean shit, even a speedcore section would work in a UK Hardcore track if you worked up to it right, the formalities of the 4/4 kick pattern mixed with the common Hardcore listener's allowance of sometimes more obscure ideas allow the modern Hardcore producer to take the genre anywhere they want.
They just don't because it's not commercial or conformist, which is a real shame.
I'm excited to see where the next generation of Hardcore producers takes the genre. People think Hardcore is coming back, and in a way it is, but holy **** we don't have a clue on what were doing. It's going to take some new faces to push hardcore into the next generation.
rant over.
Alert moderator
|
Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
|
Posted - 2014/02/11 : 04:59:44
quote:
Originally posted by versia:
quote:
Originally posted by Elipton:
Even down to the most obvious point, D&B dupes Hardcore on the creative front. D&B can work with a whole plethora of various drum patterns and sounds, Hardcore is strictly required to have a 4x4 kick. If Hardcore had anything else, the vast majority of people would dismiss it as the same genre. I think Hardcore can expand and I've been pushing my own boundaries for a while, but the short story is that D&B is a haven for creativity. It's why so many former Dubstep producers have also sought shelter under D&B's vast roof.
Sorry Elipton, but I respectfully disagree with yourself on the subject of Hardcore's boundaries of creativity, which is a shame, because I normally agree with your opinions on hardcore culture and such.
D&B has nothing on Hardcore, I honestly believe that. If we look stylistically and structurally at what Hardcore and D&B could achieve, there is a huge difference. Think about it logically for a second -
A UK Hardcore producer decides to put a Drum and Bass pattern into their track's break, many tracks do this with success. Now attempt the reverse, a Drum and Bass producer attempts to place a UK Hardcore pattern into their track's break. The result? Something rather unorthodox indeed.
I think the problem lies in the fact that most Hardcore producers have not realized the potential of the genre thus far. Being one of the fastest 4/4 genres around, Hardcore producers can take liberties and influences from anywhere, I mean shit, even a speedcore section would work in a UK Hardcore track if you worked up to it right, the formalities of the 4/4 kick pattern mixed with the common Hardcore listener's allowance of sometimes more obscure ideas allow the modern Hardcore producer to take the genre anywhere they want.
They just don't because it's not commercial or conformist, which is a real shame.
I'm excited to see where the next generation of Hardcore producers takes the genre. People think Hardcore is coming back, and in a way it is, but holy **** we don't have a clue on what were doing. It's going to take some new faces to push hardcore into the next generation.
rant over.
I hope you're right! I hope Hardcore does start to expand its boundaries, but it will take a long time. It's a very gradual thing to have various areas of Hardcore and lots of different styles. I've said on here before that Hardcore needs to expand and operate differently. I think it's limited by the way it has been. At the top, it's too much about being booked for events, and that's Hardcore's biggest hindrance I believe (even though its the biggest necessity).
Alert moderator
|
ultraskool
Advanced Member
Australia
669 posts
Joined: May, 2002
|
Posted - 2014/02/11 : 08:08:56
WHile we're on the topic of DrumNBass, do you think it has become too mainstream. I'm thinking of Roni Size, Andy C, etc..?
__________________________________
"NO MATTER HOW, NO MATTER WHY... HARDCORE STATE OF MIND! "Respect To the Man in the Ice-Cream Van!"
http://ultraskool.weebly.com
Alert moderator
|
Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
|
Posted - 2014/02/11 : 08:11:41
quote:
Originally posted by ultraskool:
WHile we're on the topic of DrumNBass, do you think it has become too mainstream. I'm thinking of Roni Size, Andy C, etc..?
I think it's frequency in the mainstream has remained proportionate to its size. The past couple of years has seen it grow quite a bit - not just in sucess and chart hits, but in the volume of producers and the range of styles.
Alert moderator
|
djscavenger
Junior Member
United Kingdom
119 posts
Joined: Jan, 2014
|
Posted - 2014/02/11 : 19:59:00
Most Drum and Bass artist do thier own thing, which is definatly not the case in the hardcore scene.
Alert moderator
|
|
Printer friendly
