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drivebye
Average Member
United Kingdom
157 posts
Joined: Jan, 2007
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 Posted - 2007/08/30 : 20:01:50
hilarious...
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DJCrissy
Average Member
United Kingdom
154 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
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Posted - 2007/08/30 : 20:27:11
whats hilarious about it?
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 12:06:28
I'm with grafik :P
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2007/08/31 12:31:20 |
novaboy
Advanced Member
Australia
1,319 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 12:13:17
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
I'm with grafik all the way :P
:O
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bulby_g
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,205 posts
Joined: Apr, 2004
430 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 13:14:35
I can't see why Influx is getting slammed for giving constructive criticism here... It's all sound advice and Bencow would be wise to take note of it. I assume he wants to hear stuff like this as he's posted it up. What exactly is the problem?
The track may be good as it is but there is always room for improvement (even for a pro') and that should definitely not be discouraged among people learning to produce surely? I know I like to hear where I'm going wrong and be told how I can fix it...
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Edited by - bulby_g on 2007/08/31 13:31:39 |
eddiewould
Senior Member
New Zealand
375 posts
Joined: Jun, 2004
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 13:58:19
quote:
Feel free to give feedback and comments
quote:
I can't see why Influx is getting slammed for giving constructive criticism here... It's all sound advice and Bencow would be wise to take note of it. I assume he wants to hear stuff like this as he's posted it up. What exactly is the problem?
Couldn't agree more. If someone says "Feel free to give comments", then they can expect the honest opinion of others. If he had said "Don't tell me what you actually think, just tell me it's good regardless" then perhaps he should have answered differently.
Criticism of this kind is very useful when you're producing tracks. Everyone's ears are different and after hearing your own track enough you can't tell what is good and bad any more.
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Dain-Ja
Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts
Joined: Oct, 2004
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 14:45:28
graphik idiot, STFU
Influx actually gave in-depth, USEFUL production advice and you're insulting him for it? If someone posts a track it generally means they want feedback - and it's exactly what he got.
Your shitty tips don't help in any way "make the kick deeper"?! wtf does that mean
Influx actually used production terminology.
Keep your ******** to yourself - if I posted a track and Influx commented on it like he did here I'd be very thankful.
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 18:37:00
quote:
[b]Originally posted by Dain-Ja:[/b
Keep your ******** to yourself - if I posted a track and Influx commented on it like he did here I'd be very thankful.
you can be guaranteed that i will mate.
I dont believe that anyone, regardless of their position in the industry should finish a track with the belief that its the best it can be - because everybody's ears are different and at that point its only good to one peron's ears.
Ask any well established producer and theyll tell you that regardless of how long theyve been producing they have piles of tracks they spent limitless amounts of time, energy and money to finish it and it wen nowhere. Ive heard styles say this and i know from personal experience with friends of mine in the industry.
People get ahead of themselves way too easily.
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Dain-Ja
Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts
Joined: Oct, 2004
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 19:00:35
for sure
after you've worked on something for dozens of hours you're not longer able to notice certain things unless you take a step back for a few weeks
getting a different pair of (experienced) ears can help LOADS
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Sk8SiM
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,293 posts
Joined: Nov, 2004
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Posted - 2007/08/31 : 23:50:22
Influx:
You make some valid points and I agree and respect most of them... however...
Just cuse your tracks are being released on relentless doesn't give you ANY power and/or authority in this "stupid" debate!
2ndly - UK hardcore tracks may sound well engineered - but as we've already established! (many many times)
THERES **** ALL TO ENGINEER IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Have you never though that most sounds implemented in watered down hardcore are designed to already fit into place - frequencies wise... -
In simple terms - there "user friendly" tracks!
Which is why they sound "due, uninteresting and lame"
Now - on to the track posted!
It firstly ^^^ doesn't do the above! So respect for that...
However - it tis abit repetitive and I have to agree with pope... in that I found it really really hard to get into it...
The first 16 bars were great... but it just doesn't do itself any justice afterwards... the intro is too long and there’s hardly any breakdowns or climaxes (if any)...
Other then that its alright - best advice I could give is to go and buy some unmixed [full version] hardcore records and study the “Structure” of them... Buy different types of records to establish a clear understanding of what works well and what doesn’t. Then… when your ready - start recomposing your music to be:
A. Flexibly and Diverse.
and more importantly
B. DJ Friendly [add bridges to mix out here and there ect]
^^^ Both work hand in hand as we need DJ’s to promote our music – but then no DJ will mix an unflexibly track…
Top work though mate :)
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2007/09/01 : 04:23:03
quote:
Originally posted by Sk8SiM:
Influx:
Just cuse your tracks are being released on relentless doesn't give you ANY power and/or authority in this "stupid" debate!
Did you actually read the context in which that was posted? it wasnt like he said "your a nobody" and i said "no im not im the best im signed, its only my opinion that matters". He insulted how much knowledge i had about production, i pointed out that because im signed obviously i have SOME knowledge, get it?
quote:
2ndly - UK hardcore tracks may sound well engineered - but as we've already established! (many many times)
THERES **** ALL TO ENGINEER IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Have you never though that most sounds implemented in watered down hardcore are designed to already fit into place - frequencies wise...
pppffftttt are you kidding me? Have you not noticed exactly how many people have uber mixdown and mastering problems? Considering that most people think that the hardest part of a track is the mixdown and master, it cant just be that easy can it? Ever wondered why ruffage is so popular? Sure taking you're argument you can engineer a lot of things badly, but engineering isnt about how much you do of it, its about how WELL you do it.
Also per your other argument - what sounds are designed to fit into place in hardcore? Vsts? Youve got to be joking. Vsts are most definitely not designed to be whacked ina track and had nothing altered with it... i can guarantee you if i did that youd hear a really bad mix.
Id say that argument would be more directed at pop music or something. You dont think a guitar or piano naturally compliments a voice? come on dude.
face it, if hardcore was *so* easy to engineer, there wouldnt be people who do it professionally.
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novaboy
Advanced Member
Australia
1,319 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2007/09/01 : 07:18:52
engineering and mastering and terribly difficult at times. i have spent hours trying to master with very basic results. i agree with influx..
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Sk8SiM
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,293 posts
Joined: Nov, 2004
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Posted - 2007/09/01 : 14:58:06
Influx - I give up with you mate... you really are 100% up your own ****ing arse…
You haven’t got a Scooby doo what I’m talking about - which is why your last post was full of complete and utter shite!
Alow me to explain why…?
quote:
Originally posted by Influx:
Did you actually read the context in which that was posted? it wasnt like he said "your a nobody" and i said "no im not im the best im signed, its only my opinion that matters". He insulted how much knowledge i had about production, i pointed out that because im signed obviously i have SOME knowledge, get it?
Not Necessarily 
It means shit in engineering terms! - You'd be surprised!
Give it a few years - and you'll understand ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Influx:
pppffftttt are you kidding me? Have you not noticed exactly how many people have uber mixdown and mastering problems? Considering that most people think that the hardest part of a track is the mixdown and master, it cant just be that easy can it? Ever wondered why ruffage is so popular? Sure taking you're argument you can engineer a lot of things badly, but engineering isnt about how much you do of it, its about how WELL you do it.
Yes engineering is hard! - THATS THE F*CKING POINT! 
but if you really understood how it worked then you'd understand that alot of UK hardcore tracks [Sy, Unknown & scott brown comes to mind] have generally nothing in them to engineer in the first place!
Ok - I’ll explain this in baby terms!
get a baseline with a fundamental frequency (we'll call it FF) of 90hz [nice bass ;)]
and then a piano with a FF of 950hz [then theres overtones – but we ent got time for that]
^^^ put them together ^^^^
and do you think you'd have a problem with the mix down?
Answer: NOOO!
Now lets get your typical UK hardcore track
Kick, Bass [both with a low release], Lead Synth and few FXs here and there [*yawns*]
^^^^ not really "mind blowing" is it
Please don't let me get technical on your ass... because ill have post a sample of a watered down track and then have to lay out a grid of all the sounds and instruments used - and what Frequencies they originally produces [dry signals] and then what they now produce after being engineered [in which you'll find they’ve only been modified a tiny tiny bit - as the sound generally fitting nice into place in the first place]
quote:
Originally posted by Influx:
Ever wondered why ruffage is so popular? Sure taking you're argument you can engineer a lot of things badly, but engineering isnt about how much you do of it, its about how WELL you do it.
.Wrong again – the key with engineering is “less = more” Do too much to it and you’ll have a shite mix!
And that’s advice coming from some of the worlds top producers from around the world - each in different industry!
If you so "professional" mate - you'd know that 
quote:
Originally posted by Influx:
Id say that argument would be more directed at pop music or something. You dont think a guitar or piano naturally compliments a voice? come on dude.
Inflex – IT WOULD DEPEND WHAT NOTE YOU PLAYED!
A grand piano has around 81 F*CKING KEYS each with a different FUNDAMENTAL FREQUENCY
And a Vocalists has around the SAME!!! [not the mention overtones]
*bangs head against a brick wall*
Oh My Lie - Can It Get Any Worse 
quote:
Originally posted by Influx:
face it, if hardcore was *so* easy to engineer, there wouldnt be people who do it professionally.
Have you not though about WHY people engineer stuff to be simple
BECAUSE “SIMPLE SELLS!"
Therefore – YES!!! they would do it "PROFESSIONALLY!"
oh my Life!!!!
The Sk8SiM Evaluation!
Of this complete Pile Of Wank! [the debate - not tune ;)]
Engineering isn’t easy – but for a “professional” – UK Hardcore is a pot of piss!
Same as Electro, Nu skool Breaks and alot of other watered down music.
Its like trying to compare Nu skool rave - to Rave Breaks!
However…
Freeform hardcore, Psy, Anthem Trance – Different ball game!
Talented - More in - and in turn... Have gotten more out!
Listen - i can understand your biased-ness - but i produce/engineer almost every last style of electronic music [and study them ofcource.] and have been networking in each of the different industries for years.
I have great production/engineering/sound physics knowledge
You... as proven above - clearly do not! [you may know alot... but your no pro mate!]
I'm a businessman and have worked and studied within the music industry and know JUST HOW IT WORKS!!!
[you - clearly do not]
And All i'm saying is:
UK hardcore isn't as watered down as say electro house... but its still watered down!
compare UK Hardcore to Freeform hardcore - then you have a different case to fight!
FREEFORM IS WHAT YOU CALL GREAT ENGINEERING!
So basically as you can see - your post above was pointless!!! There was no need for it!
p.s. "if you reply in the manner you did before… then I will reply in the manner I did above!” – GROW UP – AND LEARN TO BE CIVIL!
Thank You.
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http://www.myspace.com/Sk8SiM
Sk8SiM/Morrall Studios.
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Edited by - Sk8SiM on 2007/09/01 15:12:49 |
Leto
Advanced Member
United States
2,849 posts
Joined: Jun, 2005
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Posted - 2007/09/01 : 15:10:43
Can't resist:
^^Grow up and learn to spell. It's civil.
:P
Oh, and Sk8Sim, wtf are you on about?
In the professional world of music production there are lots and lots of standards. Have you ever looked at a Sy & Unknown track and thought, this is boring compared to a freeform track? Well, that's not because of poor engineering...it's just because the music is different.
Sy & Unknown engineer excellent tracks...they have got it down to a science and their tracks sound rich, full, balanced and crisp.
So, I think Influx's advice had nothing to do with the content of the track...which would be the only reason for you to get in a hissy fit over the whole thing.
And, let's do a comparison for everyone's benefit in the world of freeform. It's not all well engineered (surprise!). Compare a freeform track engineered by K Complex to one engineered by AMS. Different sounds, different feel to the track eh? Both are banging in my opinion. Obviously, something is happening here that is important. Obviously, K Complex is counted on by so many in the freeform industry for engineering considering he engineers 3/4 of what Nu Energy puts out there.
Now, go listen to a Micken song. The idea may be amazing, but I can't DJ it without grimacing because it doesn't have the same feel of a well-engineered track (doesn't matter who the engineer is.)
The mixdown and mastering are very important to the overall success of a track. You can't argue that.
Influx was trying to help the poor guy.
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Edited by - Leto on 2007/09/01 15:33:06 |
novaboy
Advanced Member
Australia
1,319 posts
Joined: Feb, 2007
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Posted - 2007/09/01 : 15:27:06
no need to get angry sk8sim, you do make a good point, although.
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