CDJay Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,049 posts Joined: Nov, 2001
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 12:18:50
quote:Originally posted by GrahamC:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
I'll just leave this here...
was this supposted to be better? :P To me during those 2 minutes he where almost all over the place
This! This is why I only signed on to buy the bluray after it was confirmed there would be the sets minus the MC in the box on CD (Hopefully selectable on the BD as well??). That is completely awful, I cant't fathom how anybody that thinks somebody bellowing like a numpty makes the event better, for me it is the polar opposite, it ruins it for me.
Reminds me of the bitter disappointment of when I was 16 and bought my first tape-pack and realising there were these arseholes ruining it and its exactly why I would rather buy a compilation album than go to an event, for me it's all about the music and nothing else.
GrahamC Advanced Member
United Kingdom
596 posts Joined: Dec, 2007
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 14:58:37
quote:Originally posted by wong:
enemy's quality
I would agree to some extent, I have seen him live once, he was the inbetween-acts-guy when I saw Basshunter, Sash!, Stunt, September & Dougal and a few others some years back and he was good and entertaining but as soon as the acts came on, he went off, just the way it should be IMO. I even got him and Dougal to sign the MOS Hardcore Classics CD that was fairly new at the time, really personable guy, chatted for a couple of mins with our group and I had a good night out.
For me, I'm not just picking on him, that vid was a good example of everything I see wrong with any MC, I don't see the point. The music alone does it for me. I know some do people like it and I have no issues at all with that, if we were all the same the world would be a boring place.
latininxtc Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts Joined: Feb, 2006
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 15:56:42
I mainly posted that video because some people wanted to know what the Let Me In update sounded like. Yeah I knew it wasn't the best example of his MC-less set that night I uploaded it anyways knowing that was going to be an issue. I'll post a better one later today.
Claxton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,061 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 20:01:21
I pretty much agree with everything Olly (Elipton) says.
Hardcore could hugely benefit from becoming a much more listener based music. Radio edits should be standard. Like he said, it's music made for DJS atm. In fact the At Peace album and F&D albums find a great balance between being listener and DJ friendly.
In terms of streaming... Spotify is a must really. How this could be done I don't know..
Elipton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts Joined: Apr, 2013
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 20:36:58
quote:Originally posted by Claxton:
Radio edits should be standard. Like he said, it's music made for DJS atm. In fact the At Peace album and F&D albums find a great balance between being listener and DJ friendly.
In terms of streaming... Spotify is a must really. How this could be done I don't know..
F&D do strike a good balance, but I question whether you really want anything DJ friendly on an album. In hindsight, the inclusion of so much dead-sound [intro's and outro's] in the AP album was a mistake. I don't think it contributed much to the experience of listening to it.
Albums should be exclusively for casual listeners, and they should be produced to be an audial experience. Albums should contain purpose-written music and avoid being themed compilations of back-cat.
With releases like these, I think you have material that you can put on Spotify, Soundcloud and available for prominent Youtube promoters. I know some F&D and other music is on Spotify, but as already stated, some of it has mixable sections that I don't entertain hearing. To present DJ's with their material, release EP's as compilations, digitally or even consider bringing back vinyl (it's come back in force in other genres, and Hardcore should play with the idea of bring it back [[I still find it odd to sell canvases and not records]]).
DJ's get the EP's, like the old days. Consumers can buy albums or stream individual tracks. I think the distinction between DJ's and general consumers is the key
Maggers New Member
United States
57 posts Joined: Nov, 2013
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 20:47:56
quote:Originally posted by CDJay:
quote:Originally posted by GrahamC:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
I'll just leave this here...
<taken out youtube to stop it loading a million times>
was this supposted to be better? :P To me during those 2 minutes he where almost all over the place
This! This is why I only signed on to buy the bluray after it was confirmed there would be the sets minus the MC in the box on CD (Hopefully selectable on the BD as well??). That is completely awful, I cant't fathom how anybody that thinks somebody bellowing like a numpty makes the event better, for me it is the polar opposite, it ruins it for me.
Reminds me of the bitter disappointment of when I was 16 and bought my first tape-pack and realising there were these arseholes ruining it and its exactly why I would rather buy a compilation album than go to an event, for me it's all about the music and nothing else.
The start of the set is in no way a good indicator of the overall thing. I was panicking for the first few minutes, too.
CDJay
I just take offense when any MC decides to blurt out random crap over vocals in a track, beginning of the night or not, unless it's something carefully crafted to go along with it and not take away. I'm sure he was better as the set went on, but that's a really poor example if he's typically a good MC.
To the points about dj friendly tracks on albums - I think that's why there's often a mix and the unmixed tracks for a lot of compilations. If you look at some of the DnB artists if you buy their album on beatport you also get a mix. Dance music isn't really meant to be listened a track at a time unless a radio edit is done, and I really can't see every artist doing a radio edit of every track since the genre is so small and the expense of mastering and pressing adds up. The HHU formula was perfect for me - a cd of unmixed dj friendly tracks and then two mix albums. It kept me excited for a few of the still unreleased tracks on the mixes, and happy to have all the unmixed ones.
Elliott Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,147 posts Joined: May, 2012
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 20:49:30
quote:Originally posted by Elipton:
I've not followed or tracked Hardcore in a couple of years, but the only time I've come across it has been on Monstercat or Soundcloud reposts of the occasional Gammer track (such as the aforementioned JB remix). If I'm not actively looking for it, I won't know when HU releases an album. If Powerstomp is still a thing, I'm sure I don't know. Why don't I know? I'm not that detached.. I still listen to music daily, why isn't Hardcore drawing my attention or popping up when I'm exploring music? I'm not avoiding it.
Hardcore was hard to find when I was first getting into it, even though it was comparatively huge at the time. A mate sent me Hixxy's remix of You're Shining and said "you've got to hear this" (I absolutely loved it and the rest is history :P). I was struggling to find more so I asked him for recommendations. He told me about CXH4. From there, I was able to dig deeper into the scene and finally get a foothold.
Unfortunately, we don't have anything on the scale of CXH anymore. Nowadays it's almost impossible to find hardcore unless you're actively looking for it and know what you're doing.
I like to think I keep my finger on the pulse but I still run into new labels I've never even heard of before (happened most recently with Nu Age Hardcore). I often stumble across them by good fortune. I wouldn't have found them at all if I wasn't already involved in hardcore.
It's a sad state of affairs where you have to be converted before you can be converted.
__________________________________ old soundcloud
i gave up producing
ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 22:12:42
Some producers (like S3rl) have been putting out "Radio Versions" of their songs for years on Youtube and iTunes and supplying DJ Versions via beatport and alike. It's not that hard to do if you want to.
It's probably more a question of mentality and tradition than ability. If Hardcore is still supposed to be underground music you don't need "Radio Versions" because it's not supposed to be listened that way. In a certain way the hardcore scene seems back a few years regarding how to present music and make it accessible.
Claxton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,061 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 22:35:05
I was going to mention S3rl because as you say he has been release radio edits on ITunes for a while. I wonder how that works for him.
I also wonder how many serious followers S3rl has brought into hardcore or whether his fans are only that.
DJ D-Luc-D Senior Member
United Kingdom
458 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 23:01:20
quote:Originally posted by Elliot:
quote:Originally posted by DJ D-Luc-D: "I guess what I?m saying is, drag Hardcore with you, not just the TWR sound."
Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "the TWR sound"? Are you referring to big-room/Melbourne Bounce-style hardcore or the watered-down stuff that's still melodic? Or both? :P
I can't speak for anyone else but when I talk about the "TWR sound", I mean both. One of these things is more like hardcore than the other but they've both ventured a long way from home.
Hmm ok, I just wonder why they get so much flack for doing these sounds by this forum, but it's not treated as a big deal when producers like Fracus & Darwin do it. :P
Alert moderatorEdited by - DJ D-Luc-D on 2016/01/02 23:04:25
trippnface Advanced Member
United States
1,661 posts Joined: Jan, 2010
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 23:06:11
quote:Originally posted by Claxton:
I was going to mention S3rl because as you say he has been release radio edits on ITunes for a while. I wonder how that works for him.
I also wonder how many serious followers S3rl has brought into hardcore or whether his fans are only that.
i can say for sure in the US; dj s3rl brought mass amounts of people into hardcore; maybe even a bigger icon for some than darren styles. s3rl literally embodied the balls to the wall weird ass kandi kid hardcore scene. and because if they like s3rl ( which most would agree is solid hardcore ) they will definitely like all the other uk hardcore. i dont know any people that just like s3rl and not other hardcore. know tons of people that wish there was more hardcore like s3rl used to make though!
ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2016/01/03 : 00:14:01
I think the way S3rl is doing his stuff will not work for everyone. He is certainly doing a lot of fan service and isn't taking himself to seriously, that might not be for all producers. But he has networked pretty well to get his music heard and spread, especially outside of music related channels.
It's probably the other way round from what Gammer is talking about. Having 'big industry names' drop Happy Hardcore so 'the masses' know what is hip and cool vs. people learning of the music online and demanding more/live gigs.
Ideal is probably the best of both worlds. After all there are plenty of artists that can cover each a little more.
Claxton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,061 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2016/01/03 : 00:46:56
quote:Originally posted by DJ D-Luc-D:
quote:Originally posted by Elliot:
quote:Originally posted by DJ D-Luc-D: "I guess what I?m saying is, drag Hardcore with you, not just the TWR sound."
Can you clarify what exactly you mean by "the TWR sound"? Are you referring to big-room/Melbourne Bounce-style hardcore or the watered-down stuff that's still melodic? Or both? :P
I can't speak for anyone else but when I talk about the "TWR sound", I mean both. One of these things is more like hardcore than the other but they've both ventured a long way from home.
Hmm ok, I just wonder why they get so much flack for doing these sounds by this forum, but it's not treated as a big deal when producers like Fracus & Darwin do it. :P
Sorry I didn't answer you.
I was careless. I meant TWR artists rather than sound in that instance.
Elipton Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts Joined: Apr, 2013
Posted - 2016/01/03 : 00:51:20
quote:Originally posted by Maggers:
quote:Originally posted by CDJay:
quote:Originally posted by GrahamC:
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by latininxtc:
I'll just leave this here...
<taken out youtube to stop it loading a million times>
was this supposted to be better? :P To me during those 2 minutes he where almost all over the place
This! This is why I only signed on to buy the bluray after it was confirmed there would be the sets minus the MC in the box on CD (Hopefully selectable on the BD as well??). That is completely awful, I cant't fathom how anybody that thinks somebody bellowing like a numpty makes the event better, for me it is the polar opposite, it ruins it for me.
Reminds me of the bitter disappointment of when I was 16 and bought my first tape-pack and realising there were these arseholes ruining it and its exactly why I would rather buy a compilation album than go to an event, for me it's all about the music and nothing else.
The start of the set is in no way a good indicator of the overall thing. I was panicking for the first few minutes, too.
CDJay
I just take offense when any MC decides to blurt out random crap over vocals in a track, beginning of the night or not, unless it's something carefully crafted to go along with it and not take away. I'm sure he was better as the set went on, but that's a really poor example if he's typically a good MC.
To the points about dj friendly tracks on albums - I think that's why there's often a mix and the unmixed tracks for a lot of compilations. If you look at some of the DnB artists if you buy their album on beatport you also get a mix. Dance music isn't really meant to be listened a track at a time unless a radio edit is done, and I really can't see every artist doing a radio edit of every track since the genre is so small and the expense of mastering and pressing adds up. The HHU formula was perfect for me - a cd of unmixed dj friendly tracks and then two mix albums. It kept me excited for a few of the still unreleased tracks on the mixes, and happy to have all the unmixed ones.
Just to address some points you made. Of course dance music is for casual listeners. Jordesuvi uploads hardcore to 50k-odd casual listeners and Spotify and YouTube have become hotbeds for music listeners. If people didn't listen to Hardcore casually, there wouldn't be a scene outside of events.
A 3 minute song that harshly begins and ends because it's mixed doesn't make for good hearing. It doesn't make it listenable on Spotify, YouTube, SoundCloud or on a shuffle playlist. Mixes are great, of course, but radio versions of tracks can be sold and played individually. Think about when Styles had a brief dance amongst the UK charts. He certainly wasn't charting because of 7minute DJ friendly versions of 'Save Me' or whatever.
HHU probably had a great formula and is probably what Hardcore fans want, but how are any non-Hardcore fans going to know about it? That's what the question is. How do future releases support the genre sustainably?
Mastering a radio mix as well as a DJ mix really isn't hard. If its engineered by the same producer, it doesn't require any extra resources.
Drum and Bass is a good mix. The tracks are mixable if the DJ has talent because the tracks aren't 32 bars of naked 4-to-the-floor noise. If you hear any Logistics album song, it will be a radio version that cuts straight to it without any DJ bait. Go to any track promoted by UKF or Kiro and they will be songs with clever intros and outros without DJ-bait.
Hardcore seems to function with a very traditional style and it doesn't make it relevant in today's industry.
Printer friendly
Posted - 2016/01/02 : 12:18:50
